Dr Usman Bugaje is one of the gubernatorial aspirants on the platform of the All Progressives Congress,APC in Katsina State,northern Nigeria.He is a renowned academic and a tested pro-democracy activist who fought gallantly against military dictatorship.
In this interview conducted by Danlami Nmodu,publisher/editor in chief , he examines the despicable state of affairs in Katsina State under Governor Shema.He describes Shema’s outburst and plot to kill “cockroaches” as an irresponsible sign of desperation.
He lambasts Nigeria’s Inspector General of Police over his conduct on the Tambuwa saga.Bugaje says what the IG has done amounts to thuggery.Excerpts:
Q:Let’s start from Katsina.The race for Katsina (governorship,why do you think it is worth all this
A:Let me first agree with you, it’s quite some trouble to be involved in politics these days and times.The reasons are very obvious;we have a country that has literally been run down in the last fifteen(or) sixteen years.In other words, since this particular bout of democracy ,if I can use that word, we have seen how the hopes of people from 1999 to date has been dashed several times over.We have seen how the country has gone down in terms of development;not only development but we have seen how the country itself has actually been drawn back to the brinks with lots of crisis,social economic and even moral crisis.And therefore no sane person who has the ability to bring about positive change can sit down and watch this country going down the drain.it is extremely important that we make sure as many of us as have the ability and the vision to bring about change are involved in this politics.Remember in the last 15 years or so, we have spent now close to 25 US Dollars without a single increase in even a single megawatt of electricity.I mean this kind of corruption is unprecedented,not only even in Nigeria but I think in the whole world. No country has spent this much money on a project that is so crucial to its own development and yet has nothing to show for it and nobody has gone to jail.Nothing has happened.It’s an incredible kind of record that this country has created for itself. A bad record of course.So, that’s just one.You also look at the level of insecurity.You can see how we started.I mean by 1999 we basically had no security challenge beyond the normal skirmishes:.. cattle farmers , or bouts o bouts of armed robbery in one or two places.But now, we have got territories of Nigeria under occupation of ragtag army.We have an army that has literally failed to defend its own territory despite the huge amount of money: trillions of Naira are sunk every year,again with nothing to show for it.You look at the issue of jobs, how many young people are turned out every blessed year into the jobs market and there are no jobs for them.The major areas of job creation have basically been the banking industry, the telecom industry, the oil industry.All these industries are now choked up. There is hardly any job available and the government is not creating anything.They have become so clueless,they have become so daft.And they talk about SURE-P,they talk about NAPEP,they talk about all this and there is nothing delivered in real concrete terms.So no country can sustain these kind of challenges, there is no way a country can survive this level of corruption,a country can survive this level of insurgency with very incompetent or corrupt security structure.There is no way a country can survive this number of jobless young people bubbling with energy but with nothing to do.The only way that this country can survive is if there is a total change in the direction and this is why we feel it is absolutely necessary for some of us to come into politics ,to contest for power so that when we win, we will now take the country away from this direction ,we will address the issues of insecurity, address the issues of corruption and create jobs for young people so that we can begin to have a country that can be sustainable, a country that can actually realize its great potentials.Nigeria has a great potential.It has great resources, God given resources.We have a lot of talents, we have a lot of manpower,we have got young people, something which even Europe today is envious of because in Europe the population is declining.Our is growing.65% of are all young people.This is a great potential but we can’t put it to use because the political leadership has no idea.
Q:Still back to Katsina state.These complaints you have raised, these problems and all of that, when you listen to the incumbent,Governor Shema especially when you watch his latest video about the kind of nonsense (he was caught saying), you would hear him saying the state is almost like an el-dorado,he has provided everything.If it is so, what do you want to do differently?
A:Let me now focus on Katsina because I was looking at the broader and wide context.In Katsina,let me start with very basic things.There is no way you can talk about development when you have spent 16 years,PDP has been ruling for nearly 16 yearswith the huge amount of resources, with so much water available in dams and up till now in Katsina, you cannot boast, there is no local government including the municipal where you can turn a tap and get water.In other words, if a governor has pent 8 years, he has not been able to provide water,portable water to drink for his people,how can he in all honesty,in good conscience, how can he come out and even talk about development.He has built,some say N8billion,some say N12billion , whatever it is, a brand new Government House with the latest gadgets and technology and yet you cannot provide the basic needs of the ordinary people which is water, which is hospitals,which is schools, which is security…You are there basically to provide the basic needs.I will invite anybody to go to go to the General Hospital Katsina.The first thing you will see when you walk into that hospital: everything that meets the eye is well painted.You would think that you are in sort of brand new hospital.But the moment you get into the wards,you see the rot.And it worried me.Why do you have to deceive people? Because the people who are going to come will end up in the wards.You go to the wards, the bed are broken,the windows are smashed, there are no beddings,there are no medicines that are available.People of goodwill who want to help go into the hospital try to provide food,try to provide dress..This is first hand,Im not talking about people going and telling me stories.I went there myself.I saw what I saw.Nobody would go through General Hospital Katsina without shedding tears,if you see the kind of criminal neglect of people by a governor who doesn’t have any idea of what is happening in his own country.He locked himself up in state-of-the art State House which was built with public resources.He has forgotten about the suffering of his own people.He is not even aware of what is happening in the state.And when he spoke last time, you could see,you could see a governor who is completely oblivious of the state.How many times does he even stay in the state?How many times does he go wrong and visit these place?
Q:If he is living in such magnificent State House,why is he having problems,why is he seeing cockroaches there(laughs)
A:Well this issue of cockroaches,I think he is getting crazy,because I think it’s a measure of the desperation that he has found himself, that he has realized he has lost it all.And he he is still in the dream that he can use the force, the coercive instrument of state and give cover for this kind of political thugs to intimidate people.Im afraid, it’s too late.He has lost it.I don’t think anybody even within the PDP listens to him.They may not make it public but they do tell that they are also sick and tired of the PDP and that they are going to remain in the PDP to make sure that the PDP is completely broken
Q:You mean PDP members at the state level?
A:Yeah,yeah ,yeah.Many have told us so.In fact there are people who still prefer , they are more comfortable to in fact come.In Malumfashi local government and Kafur local government, most of the key strong men of the PDP have decided , they contacted my coordinators and said they are coming over to the APC.At this late hour ,everybody is till welcome.And I can see that they are realizing,I think that people are taking note of who are these PDP people.I think they are sensing the anger and the wrath of people that might befall them in the coming elections.It will be good to interview them and find exactly what they are,but I can see that they know the people are really angry.But coming back to Katsina state governor in particular, as I said he has locked himself up in this state of the art (building) which he built with public resources while he cannot provide them water.If you go to the hospital,it is terrible.If you go to the schools, it’s awful.There is a place called Mararaban Kankara.I went there,just to stop by and talk to my supporters.This is about three months ago.And one of the things they told me-it was still raining then-they said here is our primary school,once there is cloud in the air and it would appear to rain, the school will have to close.Children will have to rush back home because the roofs have been torn off and that once it rains, the rain will so collect in the room that it takes about a day or two before the pupils will now take the water out and the place will be a little dry for them to continue having lessons.So in the month of August and September,maybe they will be lucky if they a have one (or) two weeks of school because it’s like every other day it’s raining.So I said ,okay what does it take.They said all they need is a roof.I said,Iam going to provide this roof for you …I got somebody,a technical person to look at what it is to give me an estimate.I made the money available.But the school management refused to allow me to repair this school.So I said okay fine,maybe because Iam in opposition, they wouldn’t want me to do that,the government may not be happy with them..So I said okay, the better thing is that I give my own contribution to the PTA,that’s Parents Teachers Association and maybe they can do that.We made this money available, they went ahead and blocked it.Can you see how cruel,can you see how callous.If it were his own children,will they allow this to happen?These are children of the poor
Q:You mean the governor blocked it?
A:…I gave the resources,I can’t know exactly who.But the point is a school that is completely run down in spite all the so called propaganda.I saw it myself and I did make attempt (to solve this problem) And this is not politics.It’s pure humanitarian service..Even the poor education being dished out they cannot be there.And if we have the means, why not, we should do it.And I attempted to do it.I even attempted to go round a bona fide harmless platform like the PTA.They would still block it.Now, how do you describe this kind of a thing.Very, very ,very callous.I mean you have to be really cruel ,inhuman to block (this).If you can’t do it for whatever reason,allow whoever wants to do it to do it for goodness sake.Allow these children to have some level of education,even if it is just literacy they end up with, this will help them in their lives later.So the point Iam making is that you look at schools, you look at hospitals, you look at security:you remember when there was this urge invasion into the state of Katsina where large number of people people in local governments of Faskari, in Sabuwa, in part of Funtua local government, there was huge invasion by so called cattle rustlers,you know Shema withdrew all the security and concentrated because President Jonathan was visiting (Katsina) and these people were wining and dining while there citizens were being killed.And they did not even bother to break their ceremonies to come and even see these people.It was days after when many of them would have died because of the wounds they have received.I went to visit some of them in the hospitals-in Funtual General Hospital,I went to Faskari,I went to Sabuwa.I went to Machika, I went to Dan Gora.I went to so many other places around those areas to see and sympathise with the people.Up to the time I went, the government itself had officially not been there to see anybody.Now what kind of government are you having?..I think they have lost their humanity.Because it is not a matter of even being in government .I mean as a human being ,you will be expected to have sympathy for people who have fallen into this.But the more so when you are supposed to be the protector of these people.You have got a constitutional responsibility backed by huge amount of money in terms of federal allocation,both state and local government.And you are supposed to even generate an internal revenue that will make up for this allocation because these allocations are based on oil price.Oil price is dwindling.It is not because it’s dwindling now.Everybody knew it was going to dwindle because is a finite resource.Not only that, it is subject to fluctuation because the world market is dynamic and basically (it’s) United States and China that take most of the world oil because they have got these huge industries.United States has already got it oil through fracking technology that they have found,so they don’t need our oil.China is suffocated by huge .. industries …so they are now scaling down their industries and they are moving their industries…to other countries.Ethiopia for example is one country that has benefitted from that.We cant even benefit from it in Nigeria because we don’t have leaders who think.We don’t have leaders who look hard, we don’t have leaders who think,we don’t have leaders who care about the sufferings of their own people.We have got people at the helm of affairs who are irresponsible,who have no feelings for their fellow human beings and they keep dishing out lies upon lies.But of course the truth will be known.The truth will be there.So if you go round Katsina it’s a sorry state.Just go through any town or start with the capital itself.As you drive into Katsina, the first thing you see are these carts of plastic tanks of water that are being sold all over the place.Some it is private people do boreholes and they sell this water and this is how people survive.Government has not been able to provide them water.If you look at the garbage that is on the streets.Very dirty.Just go into the town ,not the local government,in the town.If you go to the local government,go to dutsi for example or you go to Jibia or you go to DanMusa or even you go to Funtua itself,you will see the rural rot.The roads within the local government capitals,I think may have lasted some twenty or thirty years.The ditches are full of dirt, nothing
Q:You are saying Katsina Under Shema is in a sorry state?
A:No it’s in a terrible state.A terrible state.I mean he’s built some roads here and there.And sometimes you just wonder what do you need roads for when you cannot provide water.Water is so basic to life .Because if you give people clean water .Half of the diseases tha take people to hospitals especially children are all water borne.By the time you give them portable water half of your bills in the hospital would have been cut down,half of the time that people waste in going to hospitals-mothers-could have been used in some productive thing…If you go to Sirika.Sirika is a ward in Dutsi local government;they have no water to drink and their children cannot go to school,many of them because they have to go and fetch water.They travel ten, fifteen kilometres to get water everyday.So they go in the morning, early morning at dawn.They come back about 10 am or 11am.By afternoon at about 2, they have to go back to fetch water that will now be used for that particular night and till in the morning.So you have children that cannot go to school because there is no water and they are the only ones that will be able to;some have donkeys to help them to bring more water.Some have to go bare footed and go through the, I mean I have no word for it to describe this lack of sensitivity for the sufferings of people.This is what Katsina is.This is what he represents.I mean he can talk to people about the roads, about the classrooms.But anybody who lives in would know that this is a highly irresponsible government that has no business being there.
Q:But sir before you face the PDP you also have the challenge of clearing the hurdle within the (APC)party.What steps are you taking to ensure that the right candidate emerges amicably so that you will face PDP as a united force?
A:Well, I think this is a routine exercise.Every party will allow as many people as are there to come in and then a process of sifting and bringing the best candidate.Now, what they are hoping is that we in the APC , we have criticized the PDP both at the national and the state levels as being thoroughly utterly incompetent.We in the APC must therefore, if we want to really represent the change we say we represent,we must prioritize competence.Because if what we have been complaining about has been been brought about because of incompetence then the only way we can bring about change is when we bring competence on board.I am capitalizing on the fact that if the APC and especially the delegates that are going to the election look at the suffering that we are going through and try to prioritize,then I stand ..the best chance in Katsina.Because like I said ,some of us are in politics precisely to address these issues and we have a fair, clear understanding of the problems and for me,I have prepared a policy document every time I contest election, that has identified the problems of Katsina.It’s a fifteen chapter policy document that has literally taken into account every conceivable sector of human endeavor within Katsina.I have identified what the problems are ,what the solutions are going to be and how do we arrive at those particular solutions.And I have done it in a way that will( put out my strategies) clearly to address these issues or to correct these wrongs.I feel, in terms of preparedness,perhaps Iam the most prepared candidate because I have gotten this thing.Iam not aware of anybody who has done a thorough study of the problems of Katsina and itemized them in a particular order and brought out how to really address these problems.So I think in terms of preparedness, I think in terms of vision and experience,I think in terms of the commitment,I have been on this thing, this is not the first time, this is the third time I have done it.I feel I have what it takes to really do the job and my hope is that APC will prioritize competence if it is going to really represent the change that many people are looking up to in this country and I hope we will not repeat the lessons of the past because even in 2011 Katsina was an opposition state,whether ACN or CPC, but because the CPC went and mismanaged the primaries, the problem was the court was now used literally stall (progress)They did not allow the candidate to emerge until two weeks to the election.My hope is that the party in Katsina or indeed the party at the national level should make sure that this time whatever primaries they carry out should be free ,fair and transparent.Because anybody who loses in a free, fair election will not go to court.If he goes, he will not have the support of his own supporters.Because if everything is done transparently in front of everybody and you lose you can’t pick any quarrel.If you do, you will not get the support of people .But if they try to do anything that tampers or tries to favour one candidate over the other ,that is where the problem will come.And we may repeat the unfortunate event of the last(elections) because somebody is likely to go to court.I will not go to court,I can assure you that.
Q:You will not go to court
A:I don’t normally go to court
Q:Whether after primaries or whatever?
A:No .I don’t
Q:Is it that you don’t have confidence in the courts or you think it is not the best way ?
A:Well tell me who has gone to court and really won (here,laughs)We can talk about this later.But the point is that for me the party leadership must realize that what is most needed at the moment is a free , fair primaries,not just for the governorship,for all.Because the moment they try any trick, they are killing the chance of the party in that state.And when they do so, it will mean the suffering that we have gone through the last 8 years,or if you like the last 15 years or so is now going to continue…
Q:But how has PDP been able to carry out this trick so much so that with Buhari known to have so much massive followers and being from Katsina state, somehow PDP has always managed to outsmart whether CPC or ACN to always defeat any candidate belonging to Buhari’s party.
A:The PDP has always succeeded in rigging, basically.Look at this,how do you explain a situation where almost all the House of Reps, all the three senators were CPC and only the governor (PDP).How can the governor make (those), there is no way.So you could see that the governorship was clearly rigged and it is precisely because they have done all these tricks.Of course these tricks are known.Iam sure they will be up to a new one but I think people are really sick and tired and they are not going to allow any form of rigging this time.But we also as a party must make sure that we have a clean transparent because that will now galvanize the party and give us that what you might call the critical mass to be able to stop the rigging and to be able to succeed in taking over and beginning to address the problems of Katsina
Q:I really wish you a very good run at the race but I think I should move to the national level now because what is happening at the national assembly where you belonged (in the past) is something that is very horrifying.You could see, given the “crisis” over Tambuwal’s position whether he is still a speaker or not, you could see the IG of Police coming straight into the arena, taking a position, making the entire thing look very messy.Even up till yesterday (when he appeared before Reps) the IG was saying he would not recognize Tambuwal as the Speaker of the House of Reps.Should we have come this pass?
A: I think this is the greatest tragedy since we started democracy.I have never seen a reckless and stupid IG like this one.Iam amazed that in this country,at this age, anybody can be this stupid.For example, you said that it is subjudice to discuss the issue.This is what he said, isn’t it?Because he said court.Now if an issue is in court how did you come to decide that Tambuwal is no longer Speaker? I thought you would leave the court to decide.If the court came out and said Tambuwal is no longer Speaker ,you will be right.You have admitted in one breath that it’s subjudice and in another breath you have gone beyond the courts to determine for yourself that Tambuwal is not speaker and then you say you are not recognizing him.I mean I have never come across something that is so stupid by somebody at that level.And it’s a great tragedy.It ‘s a great tragedy that we are having this kind of police.And the government does not realize that IG is not helping (it) in making this statement.Because what he is basically saying is that citizens cannot trust the agencies of government like the police ,like the SSS and like the military.And if there is no trust, you can’t govern.Governance needs trust.How do we trust a government whose Inspector General of Police Will come and make a mess of himself.In that case , what it means is that he has no rules, he has no regulation , he is simply an agent like any other thug that political contestants use.So the whole police force is now like a group of thugs for the PDP.. this is the message which the Inspector General of Police is conveying.And it’s a tragedy that a country like Nigeria , with so many educated people, good institutions,good records.. is behaving in the ways that no country in the world,not even North Korea.It is not just a political matter, but it is a national patriotic matter.People who really feel part of this country or who are Nigerians will feel very sad that we have reached this level of degeneration where an Inspector General of Police will ignore all the rules and regulation and become a thug in the hand of some hungry,power-driven idiots that are running this country.
Q:It’s unfortunate ,but some would say that maybe he is doing this to defend his position and to please the president that appointed him.But did he have to do that?
A:Fair enough if he wants to do that but must he break all the rules.Because if you break the rules, you are undermining the constitution,you are undermining the very rule of law.And if rule of law breaks (down) that’s anarchy.And this is what is going to instigate people now to ignore the police, refuse to trust the government.. and they will take law into their hands.I mean you don’t need to instigate anybody today,you don’t need to tell anybody that we have perhaps one of the most corrupt police.But now what we are getting, we have got one of the most stupid Inspector General of Police heading a corrupt institution.Now how can you trust these people?How can you rely on them to keep law and order?So ,it’s like inviting anarchy.He may not realize the implications of what he is doing.I don’t know.As a person, if he lives long to have life after power,I don’t know how he is going to deal with this.I don’t know how he is live through.May be he will leave this country and go to another.
Q:You mean what he is doing may haunt him later?
A:..It will,it will,certainly.These kind of crimes, you can’t just do them and get away.May be he is thinking of leaving the country and living in exile.But you can’t do the kind of thing you do and live in this country.
Q:What is your own take on Tambuwal’s defection and his status really?
A:It is a very clear thing.How many people have changed from one party to the other.When the governor of Bauchi..when the current governor of Bauchi(Isa Yuguda) left the ANPP for PDP why didn’t they do this kind of thing to him?Was there any crack in the ANPP at that time.So what I mean is that this argument that they present on the presumptions on which they now take the kind of terrible and silly decisions that they take,they forgot that the same argument can be used against them.So for me and especially when the matter is in court,they would have restrained themselves,they would have respected the courts and waited for the court to determine how things are before they take action.But what they did is just thuggery.It’s absolute thuggery.And hear the stupid man saying they are going to investigate to see what happened, that the teargass was exploding accidentally apparently.But the videos have all the evidence,the police under instruction were running and shooting.So I really can’t understand what kind of person he is.You start wondering are they in their senses?Because when it is too obvious, you can’t deny what the whole world has seen.You only make a laughing stock of yourself.People just simply laugh at him as either being outstandingly stupid or maybe even he has lost his senses including his sense of shame.Because you can’t say what everybody has seen, it’s gone round the world,youtube ,everywhere.You are now going to investigate how it came about ,that some canisters of tear gas exploded.Everybody knew what it was.The man is just nuts.I really can’t understand
Q:I should round up by asking this.From Katsina to the national level.Given the force at PDP’s disposal- the state apparatus and all that .. And given the apparent struggle now to win the APC ticket, do you think APC is strong enough to truly challenge PDP? Given their ability to rig, the incumbency factor and all…
A:I think the APC is in a position to challenge the PDP.There are three things you just need to look at to be assured.One the PDP has failed to deliver on any of its promises.The PDP has become the most corrupt government in this country since 1960,if you check the New York Times two or so days ago.The PDP has brought this country at a level of insecurity that a ragtag army has taken territories and they have failed to be able, in fact the last time there was any recovery ,it was led by hunters.The so-called Mubi thing.
Q:Which soldiers struggled to deny
A:Well, they can’t deny what many people know.So what I mean is that, what worse performance can you get beyond this.The most corrupt,inability to deliver on any promise,creation of the kind of insecurity that is engulfing and taking over the territories of this country.I can’t see anybody in his senses that can vote for the PDP..So this is one point, the failure of the PDP.The second thing is that people are looking for hope.Just look at what some of our governors in APC performed,compared to the performance of the other governors.So you can see that we have the capacity.It ‘s not like we are just talking.You go to Lagos, you go to Osun,you go to Edo,you go to Rivers, you go to Kano.You go to states that have been run by the APC you can see the difference from other states.I think the quality of the people we are going to bring, if you look at our presidential aspirant:you know General Muhammadu Buhari,former Vice President Atiku Abubakar ,Governor of Kano,Rabiu Musa Kwankwaso, each one of them you look at ,he has got ability because in his records, he has shown that he can deliver in this matter
Q;There is Sam, and Okorocha
A:Well,there is Okorocha, there is Sam Nda-Isaiah, I mean there are others if you want, but the point Iam making is that if you look at just what we consider as the frontrunners, you can see clearly they represent a much higher material in terms of their records, in terms of their character.. and in terms of what they can deliver.They are far ahead of what we are getting at the moment, this clueless man, who doesn’t seem to know his left from his right and he is always telling lies and embarrassing not only Nigeria but embarrassing Africa.Because Nigeria is the pride of Africa.We have a leader who doesn’t seem to have any idea of how to rule
Q:You are talking of President Jonathan the sole candidate of PDP
A:Of course…The sole candidate of the PDP.And he is so shameless,it’s unbelievable.
Q:But we are told that he is the best leader Nigeria has had since independence
A:I don’t know who said so.I would like that person to be examined in a psychiatric hospital.Because , ask Nigerians,let them tell you.You go to the social media,I know they have got their own warriors on social media dishing out nonsense every now nad then ,but everybody with some sense can be able to differentiate sense and nonsense.So it is clear.So just look at this thing that I have said 25billion dolars spent on power with nothing to show for it.Look at the level of poverty and joblessness among people.Look at the level of insecurity in the country,I mean, who has brought this country down to this level ever like this man? Imean if he has any sense of shame, he will just simply resign and go into retirement
Q:Even Obasanjo said for three straight years, the president failed to recognize Boko Haram as a true problem
A: Yeah.I mean ..Obasanjo,…I mean brought this man in.Honestly he has a share of the blame whatever he says about Jonathan.It’s nice hearing it from the horse’s mouth ,but at the end of the day, who brought him up? It was Obasanjo himself .So I really can’t see how Obasanjo can extricate himself from all the crimes that Jonathan) is committing in this country.
Q:So Obasanjo cannot free himself from Jonathan’s crimes?
A:For me ,no.
Q:No you have to explain exactly how do you mean for ordinary people to understand this?
A: Yeah but he brought him up.He was the one who blocked everybody and brought Yar Adua and brought a deputy for him.And he knew YarAdua was sick.May God have mercy on him(YarAdua)..He knew.It was deliberate.So, this man does not mean well for Nigeria.
Q:You mean Obasanjo?
A:I say it,I repeat it.He just wanted something for himself.When he couldn’t get the third term,he wanted to see how he can punish this country by bringing a sick man and an incompetent person to run this country.And if they have run it down, he cannot say he doesn’t have a commission
Q: Maybe he(Obasanjo) has seen the weaknesses and he is trying to make amends?
A:Fair enough.I grant him that.But that doesn’t obliterate the record that he was instrumental to their being there.
