NAJATU MUHAMMED, popularly called Hajiya Naja is a woman of substance. She is renowned for being a vocal,radical  activist especially in defence of democracy, women and human rights in general. She is better known as wife of yet another late activist Dr Bala Muhammed.Until his death , Dr Bala was the Political adviser to the  radical Governor Abubakar Rimi regime in Kano state.Naja has remained a constant player on the political scene ever since both at Kano state and national levels.

Activism literally speaking is in her blood.During her undergraduate days Naja emerged as the first woman President of Ahmadu Bello University Students, Union.It was a remarkable achievement for a northern muslim.And, it’s even more remarkable for a woman  given the obstacles women face in the daily battle for survival in the North.

But she seems to know how to clear hurdles and go ahead to beat men to their game.A major test came during the late  General Sani Abacha years .Naja surprised many conservatives by seeking to contest an election into the Senate.Sources said  the Ulamas and some entrenched forces such as the erstwhile  highly powerful National Security Adviser,NSA Ismaila Gwarzo opposed her senatorial ambition.But the highly politically active Kano people thought better.And they voted for her at the polls.She became senator-elect for the Kano Central Senatorial District.She  thus emerged as the first woman to be voted  into the Senate from the entire North .Though the Abacha-era Senate became still-born as it was never inaugurated, this woman of substance left her  mark in the sands of time.

The true test of her political skills came in 2003 when there was heavy opposition to the ruling People‘s Democratic Party ,PDP whose candidate and serving Governor Rabiu Kwankwaso wanted to be re-elected  into office in 2003.The people of Kano wanted Change and Naja among other political activists in the state joined forces with the masses to ensure that Kwankwaso was not re-elected.They stood at the barricade and mobilized the people of Kano  who in any case wanted change.

The epic struggle for change culminated in the emergence of Ibrahim Shekarau of the All Nigerian People‘s Party, ANPP as the new governor.The icing on the cake of that battle  was that Naja was among the key people including retired General Bashir Magashi who stood firm to ensure that the people‘s mandate was not stolen in 2003.Kwankawaso ,the ousted governor ended up as a minister in the President Olusegun Obasanjo regime.Those conversant with Kano state politics said the forces that ensured victory for Shekarau have long splintered in various directions as the new ANPP governor made new friends afterwards.

Understanding the sea- change in Kano in 2003 would require a deep knowledge of the Muhammadu Buhari factor which became a rallying point for opposition politicians.Hajiya  Naja equally played an active role within the Buhari circle.In fact, she was the director of campaign for the Buhari-Okadigbo presidential organization.She also headed the electronic media campaign team  for the Buhari/ Okadigbo organization in 2003.

A turning point that  however made her part ways politically with Buhari came afterwards: Some key politicians had been meeting to form a major political party aimed at checkmating the People‘s Democratic Party, PDP.Those involved in the discussion ,the magazine learnt included Atiku Abubakar who was then an embattled vice president, Muhammadu Buhari,the  ANPP presidential candidate .Others included then Abia state Governor  Orji Uzor Kalu and Bola Tinubu who was at that time, Lagos State governor.Their  group was called G-4.The G-4 decided to form an alliance and delegates were chosen by the G-4 members  for the alliance talks.Naja was chosen to head the North west delegation representing General Buhari in the alliance talks..And she became an active participant in the group’s activities .She had been assigned to mobilize people in the North west .She was doing exactly that when someone who apparently heard a news broadcast on radio told Naja that General Buhari had pulled out of the group for which she was mobilizing furiously in the North West zone .She felt surprised that the General who delegated her to represent him in the alliance talks would opt out of the group  without  letting her know .She chose to take her destiny in her own hand by remaining with the group which later became Action Congress, AC.

In the course of time, she also became a prominent admirer of the principles that Nuhu Ribadu , Economic and Financial Crimes Commission , EFCC boss stood for. And she always said  at public functions that the battle to rid Nigeria of corruption was  a fight that must be kept alive.She is one of those utterly disappointed now that the anti-corruption war is grinding to a halt..

One of the major issues President Obasanjo had to contend with was the agitation from the North that a northerner must succeed Obasanjo.Naja believes such agitations have not helped the North.In fact she is of the view that the regime of President Umaru Musa Yar‘Adua is useless to the North.Sad as it may sound ,she said the Obasanjo regime seemed to have been better for Northern Muslims in times of crises like the unfortunate  Jos mayhem.Obasanjo was firm.But Yar‘Adua simply failed to act,says Naja.Enjoy her views on many other issues in the interview conducted in Abuja, Wednesday, March 25 ,2009.

BY DANLAMI NMODU

We are realizing that the president who promised the nation electoral reform did not actually mean what he said. After setting up a committee, he has rejected most of the fundamental recommendations of the Justice Uwais Committee. What does that speak about the nature of this presidency?

But you see, Yar’Adua has never kept a promise. He is not one that keeps promises. But apart from that, let’s even talk about this committee, you cannot be the cause and the solution, you cannot be the disease and the medicine. Yar’Adua acknowledged that the elections were highly flawed. If you look at the human rights records of Katsina State when he was governor, it was very, very bad. People were killed, houses were burnt, there were no elections. There were no elections even in Katsina. Yar’Adua acknowledged that the elections of 2007 were very, very far below international standards. It has not been acknowledged as the best here nor by the international community. Since it has been accepted by Yar’Adua, it was as a result of that acceptance that he decided to pacify Nigerians, to hoodwink Nigerians and make them believe that he will change. How can he be the disease and the cure? He can’t. However, Nigerians for their cowardice, they accepted, because the average Nigerian would much rather say let’s give them a chance.

I thought that was exactly what happened. Despite the flaws of the elections, people seemed to have said let’s give him the benefit of the doubt

But why should you give a consistent liar the benefit of the doubt? You should not.

But when he came nobody knew exactly what he was going to do?

Uh, Uh, Uh, …. Because when he came in,  if you remember, he came in with a very serious promise about the energy sector of this country. He came with a promise to declare a state of emergency in the power sector. It hasn’t been done till date. Okay? He came in when people were very angry with the elections, so he used the Justice Uwais  (committee)  to pacify Nigerians and hoodwink them. Now Nigerians know better . But believe you me, Nigerians will still tell you that let us give him a chance. Now, he is going to contest 2011.

Yes, but let’s talk more about this Uwais thing?

Yeah, but this Justice Uwais thing, it is like he called in the governors, the MPs, and did trade by barter; You get what you want, I get what I want. He had no intention in the first place of changing anything.

So, it is like Uwais and members of the committee were just used and dumped?

Of course. They were used, not because any of their recommendations would have been used in the first place. You see what happens in this country, in particular when you talk of elections, these things do not happen by mistake. They are not mistakes. They are deliberate because certain groups of people are enjoying it. That is the only means through which they can perpetuate themselves. So when Yar’Adua, somebody that supposedly did not want to contest election but went out of his way to defraud people through election, you know there is more to it than that. He started by saying that he was not interested…. There were no proper primary elections. Everybody’s arm was twisted. They were all’made to recoil and withdraw from the contest for him. But in spite of that the general elections were so bloody, so fraudulent, that I don’t see why Nigerian will continue to lie to themselves by giving him the so called benefit of the doubt.

Don’t you think we should blame the fraudulent and bloody election on former President Olusegun Obasanjo?

He (Yar’Adua) is a product of Obasanjo. He came from the womb Obasanjo. They are the same Ten and Tenpence. In fact, never in my life could I have thought I would say the governance of Obasanjo is better than this. Why? How? How can we continue under these circumstances for God’s sake as a nation? He is the product of Obasanjo.

But, I still want us to talk about the Uwais Committeee Report. Why would a regime fundamentally take a good step and then reject the major outcome?

Because there was no sincerity of purpose at the first instance. From the onset, he was not sincere. Like I said, he did it to pacify Nigerians.

Yar’Adua is not a sincere leader?

He is not, absolutely not. He   did it and he has been consistently lying to this country. If you remember what he said about the economy.

When you said “consistently lying”,  can you itemize what you see as the lies?

Some of the lies for instance about the economy. There

was a time I saw him on NTA and he was asked about what he hoped to do first and foremost for this country. He said to revitalize the economy. And then he was asked again, he said the economy. And then again, he said the economy. See what is happening to

our economy. Look at what is happing to his so-called seven-point agenda. We all know that these are all slogans. Now, but most importantly, is the first lie he told to Nigerians about electoral reform. Nothing has been reformed and nothing will be reformed. In fact, they have gone out of their way to retain Maurice Iwu. And retaining him because he is an expert…..

But reports indicate he may be sacked?

They may. But have you seen them doing it? More so, anybody who is there will be particularly handpicked to do their bidding. He must be somebody that will write down and read their script.

Could that be why they rejected the Uwais report which says that the National Judicial Council should appoint members of the board of INEC including the chairman.

Of course. Yes, why does he want to appoint them? Why shouldn’t it be given to the judges?

From your own experience and analysis, what is responsible for the flaws in our electoral system?

Let me tell you, nobody gets liberty and freedom on a platter of gold. Nigerians must begin to tell themselves the truth. In 2003 in Kano, we fought, we stood by it and we won. But lives were lost.

You mean the Shekarau election?

The 2003 Shekarau election, not the 2007. And Shekarau then was penniless. I want to tell you that I was sewing the clothes he was wearing. He was so very penniless. But he was able to get 1.2 million votes as against the 600,000 votes he got in 2007 as governor. Billions were spent in 2007 but he was only able to muster less than half the votes he got in 2003. Why? Because we failed to mobilize as we did in 2003. But most importantly, there was so much apathy in Kano that people really did not care…. So this is what happens in the generality of elections in the country. Once you have control of the resources; like I have always said, there are five pillars upon which you can usurp power in Nigeria.

Like what?

You need moneybags; the INEC; the police that is the instrument of coercion; the military at times and the judges the courts to enforce it. And the moneybags. The moneybags coming from the executives; he who wants to retain power. Because he controls the resources either at the federal level or at the state level.

You mean these are the pillars upon which election rigger rely?

You see, when you talk of rigging, it is an understatement. They are no election,  talk less of rigging. They are not rigged. They strangulate us. There are so many  states that never cast votes. In Nigeria today, there is a governor that nobody ever voted for him. He did not get a single vote. In Nigeria today, there is no even internal democracy within the parties. You just go with your force, with the police, they help you; sometimes the military, they help them. They just force themselves on the people from the party level. Now what they are saying is that the legislators can even get free tickets (automatic tickets) That you don’t have to go and contest. Why are people afraid of contest in a democracy? The difference between a totalitarian government or a military government and a so-called democracy is the question of choice, the right to choose. In fact, they are worse then the military because the military do not go about taking billions out of the national coffers in order to put themselves in office. In the case of this co- called democracy, billions of tax payers money are put into the fraud, into these fraudulent elections. So you see, they are even worse than the military. Because in a military regime, nobody asks them to come. They just come with their guns and boom, boom, they are in power. These ones, they kill in hundreds, they plunder the resources, they force themselves on us and they continue to plunder. They don’t  have anything to show for it. We have one or two or maybe three governors in this country that have anything to show for it… So what are we talking about? Which democracy? Who is deceiving who? Are Nigerians deceiving themselves?

Can you name any governor think is doing well?

Oh yes! I am so proud of the Lagos State governor

You mean Babatunde Fashola?

Oh Yes. I think he (Fashola) is one of the greatest people that have ever lived. But one of the reasons is that Lagosians are a different set of people. They are rich, they are literate. But once a people are devoid of education and are wallowing in poverty, then anybody can do anything with their resources. They don’t even know it is theirs and they can’t protest. But the Lagosians are so enlightened. And the average Lagosian, I believe is above the average Nigerian in terms of living above subsistence level. They have had a history of very, very active governors from Lateef Jakande. Even the former Military Administrator, General Buba Marwa; so they have consistently had good governance not because probably are really elected because Buba Marwa was not elected, but generally because you know you can’t play around with them. You can’t compare that for instance with Kano state or with Zamfara state  or with Sokoto State or with, well maybe Kaduna is a little bit better. You can’t even compare them to the Niger Delta States where they have diverted the attention of the public to something else while they plunder their resources. ………

So what exactly is Fashola doing that you think is deserving of commendation?

Yes, you see the re-organisation of Lagos. The infrastructural development that he has embarked upon. His programme on education, I think it is commendable. And he is doing it without much fanfare. If you look at the seven-point agenda for instance, of Yar’Adua, all you hear is the sloganeerism, the enormous resources put into publicity, pubicising the seven-point agenda. But nobody can give you a blue-print of what Yar’Adua intends’or how he intends to implement the so-called seven-point agenda. It is just a slogan. Maybe, he just woke up one morning and decided this is my agenda. But how he goes about implementing his agenda till date nobody knows. And they say he is still preparing. After over two years, he is still preparing.

I thought we had gotten to the point where I would ask you to review the performance of the Yar’Adua’of the Yar’Adua regime but you have already started the review

What have you got to review? There is nothing for you to review.

I mean the Yar’Adua regime.

No, no, no. there is nothing for you to review

But when he came in, despite the flaws of  the election, people decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and when he started reversing Obasanjo’s policies people thought may be has something to offer. But suddenly things’’came to a standstill…’’’’

(Cuts in) Let me tell you, there was never a time that Nigerians (as a whole) decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe people like you and not me (laughs). Definitely not me. The elites generally decided among  themselves because you see a lot of them are either cowards, hypocrites or simply greedy; people that are so dependent on government patronage. They cannot do anything outside government, so they say benefit of the doubt. Ah, Ah, who has spoken to the populace, the millions and millions of Nigerians who have no access to the media, that are wallowing in poverty and illiteracy, who spoke to them to say that they have given him the benefit of the doubt? No, no Nigerian did. But maybe a handful of people that benefit from this manipulation are giving the benefit of the doubt whether they would get something out of it. This is the truth o! No more, no less. Nobody gave him the benefit of the doubt. How can somebody like this be give the benefit of the doubt, somebody that acknowledged himself that the elections were flawed, but they went out of their way to buy their way through the judiciary. We read a lot about this…

But they denied corruption of the judicial process.

They are lying. Don’t mind that.

They have always denied buying their way

(Laughs) we all know better. Honestly we all know better. But except for those three great Justices, Nigeria would have been doomed. Because at least there was a dissenting judgment.

You mean the Supreme Court judgment?    

Yes,  at the Supreme Court level. Apart from that, it is just terrible. But you can see what happened in quite a few of the states. A governor is given a governorship seat without a single vote. If you take the case of Sokoto and Kebbi States, you know what happened. People jumped from (parties). While Sokoto was made to pay (through annulment of his election and a re-run election) Governor Dakingari of Kebbi state was allowed to go scot-free because he is the son-in-law of Mr. President.

That ruling in favour of Dakingari seemed to have stirred some controversy, because some people felt it was just done to favour the president’s family

Of course that is it. You hear of people buying positions in this country. We have never had it so bad.

And see governors rushing to marry the president’s daughters  

Everybody is rushing to marry the president’s daughters because there is benefit out of marrying them.

What do you think are the benefits?

We have just spoken about the Kebbi State governor. That is one benefit. And then when it is election time, you see, these people have inferiority complex.

Those who marry the president’s daughters?

Yes. They have such inferiority complex because they believe that they can’t make it on their own even though they had made it on their own prior to that time (of marriage). I can’t imagine why a governor who should have been elected free and fair, they would now need to go behind the president for his next re-election. It doesn’t make sense.

So marrying the president’s daughter is some kind of insurance policy?

Of course.

But you believe it is a product of inferiority complex

Of course, in addition to the insurance. Because you have to believe in your self. In the first place, you were a governor before you married her. So how did you become a governor in the first place? Why do you need to hide behind the president for a second term? Is it because you have no intention  of working for the people? Is it because you don’t believe that you are in touch with the people to the extent that  they cannot be your fortress? Because if you really give to the people what is due to them, then they will become your fortress. You don’t need the president. But because votes do votes’do not count’anyway. And people could be punished for any form of disobedience. You see what is happening is that governors are now like, you know.

Errand boys?

Errand boys to the president just like the local government chairmen are errand boys to the governors. They might decide top wrench your election from you if you are not in the good books of the president; they could do that.

You can see why these people choose to marry the president’s daughters. 

That is one of the reasons

definitely. Because these daughters of the president, remember, were there in Katsina, long time ago unmarried until he became president. Then everybody is now rushing, why? Why didn’t they marry them in the first place when he was in Katsina, eight years as governor? Suddenly everybody is rushing to marry the president’s daughters.

What becomes of these marriages after the president’s exit from power?

I think you should ask former president Shehu Shagari, because he was a victim of that… President Shagari, they married his daughter. After he left the presidenc, they divorced her.

Really?

Yes, it is. It happened.

…There something which bothers Nigerians but which the presidency plays down. When

you look at the president, he doesn’t look like someone who is very healthy despite the denials. He is not looking robust. But here we are hearing of campaigns for 2011. But let’s even discuss the crisis of the president’s ill-health and its denial. What does that mean?

If you have not forgotten, his election took off with this illness. Even as a presidential candidate, the first information Nigerians were given were about his ill-health. We started hearing that he had collapsed, he had been flown out, Obasanjo was calling him, putting on the speaker phone: ‘Umaru, are you dead’ Everybody heard this in Nigeria. So Obasanjo had already prepared the minds of Nigerians to the fact that he is giving them a sick president. This is it. The question we should ask is why did Obasanjo decide to take the weakest link among the contestants?

So why did he?

Because obviously Umaru Musa Yar’Adua’is the weakest link among the presidential candidates. In fact, he was not even part of the contest. So  Nigerians should ask Obasanjo this. Obasanjo probably might have wanted somebody that would not live long. You see, for me, I hate to talk on tribal politics or religious politics because it is fraudulent. It is a weakness, it’s’a smokescreen actually. They are all the same Ten and Tenpence actually whether Hausa-Fulani, Niger Delta or whatever or Yoruba. Because the whole idea of this so-called gentleman’s agreement on rotation is to take them closer to the resources. But if you are talking in terms of merit or good governance, what does it matter whether you are falling from the skies to be my president. Does it really matter who gives me water? Does it matter who gives my children education? Does it matter who gives us goof health care? What does it matter who gives me good food? But you see, that is not the essence of governance in Nigeria today. What we have today in Nigeria is a question of the degree to which you are close to the coffers of the nation. So the closer you are…That is why they want to take first their tribe ;  their tribe must be from their village; from their village must be from their house first and foremost because that way they are sure their hands can get into the cake, the national cake, no more no less. So if somebody from Owerri is president, then the Hausa man in Sokoto will feel that the resources are too far, you understand. That is all. They are lying. What difference does it really make to you who gives you what is rightly yours? It is about sharing resources.

So why do you think the former president Obasanjo chose Yar’Adua’whom you have described as the weakest link?

…At one point in time, there was pressure on Obasanjo to take power back to the north

for reasons best known to them. It is not our God-given right to rule Nigeria. Northerners might have ruled Nigeria because of probably, their population, if votes actually count or whatever.

You are saying Northerners  don’t have the God-given right to role Nigeria?

No, they don’t.

Some leaders have claimed in the past that Northerners are born to rule

Who gave them? Who “born them to rule”? You understand who “born them to rule”? Who gave them the right to rule? We are equal before the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. It’s everybody’s right to be where he wants to be. So I don’t know when God put his signature on the North to rule Nigeria. And look let me tell you, Northerners are generally Moslems.And the first law put upon moslems by God Almighty is on governance and justice. That is the first law.

You mean most Northerners are Moslems

Yes, most Northerners are Moslems and they know this. And they also know that you would lose that leadership role if you begin to exploit, if you become unjust, definitely you would be broken into pieces by God Almighty Himself. And I believe that is what the Northerners have done and that is why they are losing. Because as far as I am concerned,  Yar’Adua could be from out of space. He is useless to the North, even if you talk in terms of the theory I gave you earlier on, the closer he is to your town the closer you are to the resources. I want to ask and I challenge all these Northerners that have ruled this country, what benefit has their rule been to the North? We are still the most backward in terms of literacy, poverty, any kind of infrastructure is non-existent in Northern Nigeria. So what are they talking about? Recently Moslems were killed. They say Moslem, Moslem, ok, Moslems were lynched in Jos, but Yar’Adua’was talking of Mumbai. So of what use is he to the Moslems. If Moslems for instance want to be sentimental  about saying that I want him because he is a Moslem, I don’t give a hoot who he is. My rights’must be protected. And  does it really make any difference? Are you not deceiving  yourself? Are you not being illusive to think that ok, he is Hausa-Fulani, he is there? You are not dining with him.

But the same Yar’Adua you criticize over the Jos killing is also being criticized by the Governor of Plateau State for allegedly taking sides with Moslems

What side did he take? Look, let me tell you, Obasanjo is better for the Moslems than Yar’Adua. Because

at one point in time Obasanjo had the nerves to declare a state of emergency. And let me tell you, more people were killed during the time of (Governor ) Jang than during the time of (former Governor Joshua)  Dariye. So what are we talking about. In fact it took a lot of pressure on Yar’Adua’to even comment. When people were being killed in Jos, Yar’Adua was busy talking about Mumbai, the terrorists in Mumbai in India. He did not see the terrorists in Jos.

Is this the general feeling in the North?

Yes. Because he did not protect their interest. And in the north generally, except for his friends from Katsina, who knows there is Yar’Adua in office ? Except of course, the Lady Macbeth, Turai, his wife. Who knows he is president ? I mean for somebody who claimed to have had cold but had to be rushed abroad, I don’t know if his seven point agenda does not include health facilities. But he had cold. For cold, all the doctors in Nigeria and all the hospitals in Nigeria cannot cure him of cold, he had to go out. You begin to see the unseriousness of his government. Nigeria has no security any way, so let’s not talk about the security of Nigeria if  the President is abroad on health grounds. But for God’s sake, if you cannot think of providing your country with infrastructure, with health care, to the extent that the president will be cured of cold as he claimed outside, then something is seriously wrong with the way he thinks and the way way he thinks he can implement or provide for the people of this country.           

Still on the Jos issues you raised. Don’t blame Yar’Adua’,he probably was trying to be careful because the Christians were equally killed.

Yes, it’s true. Let me tell you, a lot of the people that were killed, you see actually a lot of Christians were killed by Christians. Because what is happening in Jos today-Jang just stopped short of confessing to that-is that they have to look at the question of so-called indigenes. There were lots of Christians that lost their property.

Why would Christians kill Christians?

Because they were not indigenes. To the Jos person or whatever, first and foremost you are not a Christian but an indigene. So even if you are a Christian but a non-indigene, you still become a victim. Because it is just like what was happening to the Ibos in my place, Kano

Is this based on the facts on the ground?

I know that,  for instance in Kano, Ibos had been targeted. These are very hard working people. They work very hard to make it and they the indigenes are out begging. If they are not begging in the streets with their pants, then they are moving from one house to another looking for pittance-you know executive begging. They don’t want to work for reasons best known to them. Except for the farmers who are really actually sustaining this country, a lot of those in the metropolitan areas are not doing anything. So they begin to envy those that have worked hard and earned (their income)- And then they use religion. So, when they want to steal their things, they begin to tell you about religion. They use religion as a pretext or as the ideology to attack these people.

You mean the so-called religious crisis in the north is just a cover…

It is. The same thing is happening in Jos. It  is not really religion. The average person-let me tell you-if you go there, the average native is there drinking his Kai Kai or whatever. They don’t want to work. But the average Hausa man who is also lazy in his own place, once he leaves his town, he can do anything. So they go, they settle, they work very hard. They are like the Ibos. They work very hard. They make money. And then the envy. Ah, Ah, how can these people come to my town and they are making money and I am not making .But they don’t ask themselves why they are not making money while others are making money? That is what is happening. And then these people, these so-called retired civil servants, retired army officers, they had been detached from their people for a long time. When they were making it in Lagos as army officers or what have you or civil servants, they were totally detached from their people and then after retirement, they went home as aliens. All of a sudden, they realize that the only way they can be re-absorbed is through this concept of divide and rule. So they now begin to instigate (saying) Ah, these people are the source of our problems. But when they were drinking their Kai Kai with the Hausa-Fulani and other Moslems up there in Lagos, they were all the same. Now, they are all retired and tired. But the only way they can continue to be relevant is this indoctrination about Christian-Muslim. It is not actually that. It is economic.

But there also the pout that most of these crises arise from the manipulation of the masses by political elite to serve their interest

It is exactly what I am saying. They are retired. They are no longer relevant. They are not in governance. But they have to be reabsorbed. So when they foment crisis like this, when you want to call leaders, you call them. When money is coming for rehabilitation, it goes to them. It doesn’t even go to the people whose houses were burnt down or whose families lost their people.

I remember one of Mantu’s aides said Mantu was behind some of the crises in Jos. But Mantu as a Moslem and…

This is what I am telling you. It has nothing to do with religion. It is purely economic and the elite are in search of relevance. So they manipulate these people that are wallowing in poverty and illiteracy, ignorance. That is all. Once people are poor and they are ignorant, they are very easy to manipulate.

Let’s go back to this Yar’Adua issue again. The curious moves towards 2011. We all know about the president’s ill-health. Even though we have been told he is hale and hearty he doesn’t look hale and hearty

No he doesn’t. Definitely not.

Now, Adamu Aliero (FCT minister) has told us the president is going to contest. And Tony Anenih is praying that God should keep Yar’Adua for us for the next six years.

(Laughs)

And we have heard the PDP as reports said today Wednesday March 25, that Yar’Adua is going to contest in 2011. Obviously we are going to have a fait accompli?    

Let me  tell you… always look beyond what they say and try to see it for what it really is. What it really is in Nigeria today is that people are so impotent and so dependent

Impotent?

Impotent and so dependent on government patronage that they don’t want to risk challenging anything that is wrong. Not just because they benefit from it but because they know that corruption is so entrenched in the system, that really to fight it is to lose that which you will take to your mouth. To fight it is to lose the millions and millions and millions you would have otherwise made by just complying. Look, somebody was asking me about wanting to contest. But he also wants to know if Yar’Adua would contest.

You mean a politician?

Yes, a politician. And then…

So that is what they do? They first of all want to sniff around to be sure whether the incumbent will contest

Yes, that is one. And then secondly, the southerner will tell you, why is the north retaining power? Why ain’t they rotating? Why ain’t they handpicking us? Because they know that one, votes do not count. Two, merit is insignificant. But most importantly, the populace are immaterial. It is just what I get, when and how. So, the average politician is so lazy, so irresponsible, so compliant to this fraud, that he wouldn’t even dare. He would rather he is anointed. But the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria is explicit and there is the supremacy of the constitution. You have the right to contest. You have the right to vote and be voted for.

Now it is believed it is the turn of the North and therefore.

But who gave them the turn? That is the point. Who gave them the turn?

In your own view?

No, no, no. it is the view of the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. There is no question of turn. It is not turn. It is a right. But somebody from the South-South will tell you it is our turn. Who gave him the turn? If you are worth your salt, go out and contest. But they would not be bothered. They would not bother to contest because they know that you are supposed to be anointed. Anything outside that will not be acceptable to the powers-that-be. But it is one tiny circle that is holding Nigeria by the jugular vein. Whether they are from the South-South or from the North or from the East or from the West. See what happened to Obasanjo. Obasanjo or the Yorubas were brought into power to atone for the sins of (General) Babangida. It wasn’t as if it was the constitution of the Federal Republic.

If I get you right there is nothing stopping southerners from contesting in 2011?

No, no. why are they not contesting? But because you see the PDP has been so carved by the Abdulsalami government; It has been so carved  from the onset to retain power. And power for them, not for us. They handpicked their oga (Obasanjo) whom they thought would do their bidding for them. Unfortunately for them, Obasanjo did not go the whole hog for them, but he did give them a little. I’m sure he did. But what I am trying to say is that there is nothing like turn. It is my turn, it’s your turn, no. that is not democracy anyway!

That there is nothing stopping people from the south contesting?

No. Tell me which law stops anybody from contesting election? Which law says it is the turn of the North today and the turn of the South tomorrow?

But…

No, no, no. I am asking you as per our constitution, which law? Even within the PDP for instance, they say it’s a gentheman’s agreement.

Are you calling on any credible southern candidate to come up?

Believe me, yes. Why not? Because so long as we stand on these lies, you will never get people that are patriotic.

But if southerners come up now it would be said they are eating into the turn of the North

But it is not our turn. We are not getting anything, for God’s sake. What has the North got since Yar’Adua came? I am sure that Lagos gets more electricity than Kano. We have no water, we don’t have health. Even the enabling environment for you to do business, the economy has gone down. The Naira is in tatters. And is there any difference between the Naira I spend in Kano and the Naira that you spend in Oyo for God’s sake? No. Is the value of the Naira any better in the North than it is in the south or anywhere? You see, we have to be able to tell ourselves the truth. We should no longer allow ourselves to part of these lies. The least we can do for instance is to stop grumbling and come out and say it as it is. Because what I know about this country is that nobody is enjoying even his loot. Even their loot… What I am saying is that loot as much as you want to loot; you still cannot sleep with two eyes closed whoever you are in this country, because of the total insecurity. Whoever you are in this country, if you have an accident or you breakdown in any way as a result of illness, the only solution is for you to be rushed (out), to take an air ambulance. And maybe before you get there, the first one hour is always crucial in things like that. But before you get there, you could be dead. Or you could have a permanent damage  to your health. But how many people can even afford that? What is happening to the billions and billions and billions of God-given Naira or Dollar? The God-given Dollars, the God-given oil? Who worked for the oil under the ground? Who worked for all these mineral resources? Who kept it there? It belongs to the people of the Federal Republic of Nigeria as given by God Almighty. But who is siphoning it? Who is enjoying it? Who is plundering these resources? Why do we always get bad, bad, worse, worse leadership? For God’s sake, because of our inability to tell a simple truth. Because of our inability to call a spade a spade. Because of our inability to say ‘No’, for God’s sake. And we are either not saying no because we are thinking of, ‘If I say this no, I might not be commissioner, I might not be minister, I might not get adverts in my paper. This is the reality.

You are hitting at the journalists too?      

I am so sorry but this is the truth. And then when you get it, of what use is it? You spend everything on diesel. You spend everything paying school fees. You spend everything giving yourself security. You cannot even go on holidays in Nigeria anywhere. If you are very, very lucky, you have to travel out. You can’t take a holiday’in your own country for God’s sake. We are still in bondage since 1960 our flag independence. What are we talking about? So what Nigerians do is to sit and grumble and grumble and disperse. Me, I take exception to that.

If a southern candidate comes at to contest, from your knowledge of events and people, do you think there is any acceptable candidate now that can challenge Yar’Adua?   

What is there it challenge in Yar’Adua? There is nothing to challenge. Just leave him with the problems that he has. His personal problems are enough for him to take care of him, let me tell you. But you see, the issue is not Yar’Adua or  his incapacitation.  The issue is the …140 millions, impotent , …Nigerians

How are they being  irresponsible?

Irresponsible for refusing to challenge oppression. Cowards. They are all a bunch of cowards . Or a lot of them are just hypocrites. They just sit on the fence, waiting for when they will be called to either get their contracts or their political appointments, Sometimes, I pardon the general populace because a lot of them are trying to come to terms with what to eat for that day. And that is why the governing elite continue to perpetrate these atrocities,  bleeding the nation. Because, if there is food on the table, if they give the enabling environment, if they give education, then they know that they would be challenged. But for God’s sake, my father cannot be their slave and I will  not be slave and my children   their slaves ,no! We must be able to say no to this system , even for our own survival as a nation .

Let’s take a look at the anti corruption war, which even  the senate said is slowing down. Since the removal of Nuhu Ribadu, things   have not been the same.

How can they be the same? It was deliberate. Now we know why Nuhu Ribadu had to be removed. Because the corruption in the presidency has soared.

You mean Now?

Yes .It is worse than Obasanjo’s time.

That   is a very grave allegation

Yes, it is. But it is true, what is happening in this country.

What gives you that impression?

There is so much  corruption because,  I want to tell  you that during the time of obasanjo , you would see activities.You have seen some changes. for instance I can tell you about  Abuja. I can tell you that Obasanjo through Nasir el-rufai  had a lot  to show. But what have you got to show now. Tell me one sector. But is the money still not flowing? It is still flowing for  God’s sake. But who and who and who are controlling the Government of the federal Republic of Nigeria.? You can count them on your finger tips. So who is eating what? Family and friends. This is the truth.

But you  know when this report is published they will shout blue murder, denying it.The same thing  happened during obasanjo’s   regime when a foreign report said over 50%  of corruption  during Obasanjo’s  regime happened in the presidency but the regime said it was not time. You are saying corruption in the presidency now has soared?

Yes, it has and  I am sure they will say  it is not true. It is true. It is so obvious.

Are you basing this allegation on what you suspect to be the activities  of the henchmen of the presidency

Definitely So.  Because money is coming out but it is being trapped.  And look at what is  happening in the power  sector. Look at the scandal. People are being removed. People are  fighting  among  themselves because  about one- third of our budget is said to  be going to  the power sector.  And his friends and relatives are all being entrenched in the power sector, Why ? I saw a paper- one of the newspapers was giving an analysis that  they actually want to trap the money to use it for their campaigns in 2011. This has always been the case and I have not seen anywhere they denied it.

So rather then coming out with electoral reforms they are preparing  to rig?

Of course, I told you they have gone beyond rigging. When you rig, there is an election for you to rig.  There are no elections so what are you rigging. They are only siphoning.

What do you  make  of what   happened to Nuhu  Ribadu and el-Rufai?I know for a fact that these people who were very  instrumental  to the election of Yar Adua. But it seems they were apparently  used and dumped

You see, for me Yar’Adua has  been very, very treacherous. But I now understand why he took the actions he took on hindsight.

Why, what do you mean?

One, corruption is in his favour. And Nuhu Ribadu  can be  quite bold and he  can be quite unpredictable when it comes to nailing down anybody. So I want to believe that Yar’Adua was  very clear as to what  he wanted  to do as president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria

Fighting Corruption  was not part of it?

Fighting corruption was not part of it , because he can only perpetuate himself in  power corruptly. So Nuhu Ribadu had to go . As  for el Rufai, (he)has done so well for Abuja. Whether we like it or not he was such dynamic leader in Abuja. He did  a great  job. See Abuja now is in tatters. Abuja is now rubbish dump, something  that you never  got to see during the time of el Rufai. Hospitals were working then. Roads were clean.  Shrubs were trimmed. There was  water. He went  around the city to  check  for broken-down pipes personally. I had seen him on the streets on one or two  occasions doing that. And you see  something was booming , you could hear the echo of government . You could hear the echo  of Ngozi Okonjo –Iweala, the finance Minster ;you could hear her, the vibration. We all felt her in the country. We all felt el Rufai. We all felt Nuhu Ribadu.  If Obasanjo  ever achieved anything, these were his achievements. But soon after, what is happening? The Naira is in shreds. And you see I want to talk about this naira  even as a lay person. I can’t understand the explanation of this government and the explanation of this government about   our dwindling oil revenue. If you remember Abacha was governing this country (when petrol price) was $8 per barrel. Then it went up to $9 per barrel. By the time the oil price rose, it got to $15per barrel. From $9 to $15, everything done by PTF was as a result of that windfall of $6 per barrel of oil. It was in fact $3 per barrel that was given to the PTF. And every hospital you go today in Nigeria you will see PTF. They are still using PTF  bedsheets.There were PTF tablets,PTF roads .PTF was all over with $3 per barrel. The most important thing was that the Dollar was pegged at N80 to the Dollar, at a time when we were selling petrol at $15 per barrel. Now Yar’Adua is still selling at about N40 - $ 389 per barrel, but the Naira crashed up to N190 to the Dollar, how do you explain that? Who is lying to who? But what I think they did was that they stole from Peter to Pay Paul…

 Nmodu,  executive editor Insider Weekly who conducted this interview  is  also editor- in- chief Newsdiaryonline.com